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Roman Republic: Res publica Romana • View topic - What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

This message board is dedicated to the ancient Roman Religion, the Cultus Deorum Romanorum. Here both historical practices and the living modern tradition is to be celebrated and discussed. The members of the Collegium Pontiificum and Collegium Augurum host this board as moderators and are happy to answer questions.

Re: What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:27 am

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Re: What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:00 pm

for me the "spiritual Nation" is ROMANITY today.
it is the global cooperation, and fraternity, without any sort of ethnical/sexual/political clivages between people.
the Nation is the People.
Values and virtues of the RR and CPR and others groups are the same.

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Re: What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

Postby Publius Iulius Albinus » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:51 am

These being the words of Publius Iulius Albinus Alexander.
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Re: What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

Postby Octavia Aurelia Fulva » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:01 pm

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Re: What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:14 am

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Re: What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:50 pm

Salve Lupe,

Well said.
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Re: What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

Postby Numerius Antonius Paullus » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:44 pm

Salvete Omnes

Hello one and all. I have been following this thread for some time and find myself compelled to speak. I find that in many ways, the way the RR is set up with magistrates and such inhibits its ability to connect and associate with the greater CDR community. The primary reason behind this I will explain by using my other group I participate in, the Northwest Civil War council.

Some time ago, if memory serves, four years ago, the unit I am in, which at that time was the 10 N Y CAV. We had a gentleman in our group that decided that he was going to bypass the chain of command and have him instated as Major of Cavalry by becoming buddy buddy with the battalion staff and the "magistrates " of the group ( which is a huge jump, first sgt. To major). This man the. Proceeded to abuse his power to harass and bully people into doing what he wanted. Eventually getting his fingers in everything, including the coffers of the club. It got so bad that his attacks against my unit commander forced my unit to change sides (becoming the 1st NC CAV.) which there are still caused grief and made the vendetta continue. He eventually abused his power so much that he was expelled. Not before causing irreparable damage to the club and damaging how we are seen among others. We are still recovering.

How does this lengthy story relate?

The RR is a group that does not simply represent the CDR but so much more. Yes, in an organizational way it makes sense to have some sort of set up to run the group, but to be honest much of the offices really, at least in my mind only causes drama via politics and power playing and really has no real connection to the CDR and in some ways it can harm it. This is why I am leery of large "reproductions" of every aspect of the Republic. That is not to say I loathe the RR and it's orginzation but it does at times worry me. I've already ridden the politics power play train before and have no wish to see the CDR harmed by something that means well but has the potential to damage the image of the CDR and the whole concept of Romean reconstruction.

All of that being said the RR can be a vehicle for good as well but there must be serious attention paid to developments and the paths the RR goes down.


These are my views. Purely opinion, but based on observations.

Valete bene

N. Antonius Paullus
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Re: What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

Postby Lucius Aurelius Curio » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:46 pm

Curio Paulle Sal.

Okay, it occurs to me that maybe you don't fully understand how the system of the Roman Republic is established. There is a clear separation between the CDR and the main body of the RR. This was established long ago. The only two exceptions to this is that for now the CC appoints Sacerdotes based upon their applications and past experience in RR, nothing more. The second exception rests in that when we don't have a Sacerdos to perform a specific rite we have the Consules do so. I find that very beneficial to the CDR, don't you?

Getting past all that, I fail to see how the magistracies damage the CDR in any way, shape or form. We have many individuals within the Roman Republic that are always looking for new ways to raise funds so we can build temples and altars to the gods. Does this seem detrimental to the CDR? Because it certainly doesn't to me.

As per your example, there is no way to get 'past' the magistrates in the RR. We are elected by the people, end of story. The people choose us, and we have two magistracies devoted towards looking for corruption within these posts. The first is the Plebeian Tribune, the vanguard for the plebeians. They make sure the plebeians are being treated fairly and no corruption is happening. They have the ability to veto ANY edict or lex, so long as both Tribunes are in agreement. The second of these is the Censores. They make sure that moral behavior is being followed by our magistrates and citizens. In this capacity, they have the ability to issue a Nota against a citizen breaking the Mos Maiorum of the RR. And if it's not legitimate, the other Censor can veto it. Checks and balances, amice. Checks and balances.

In closing, I fail to see how our magistracies are in any way detrimental to the development of the CDR. The RR itself has brought together very intelligent minds to compile evidence on how our ancestors worshipped the gods, and the best ways to modernize certain principles. These minds have pretty much all been magistrates.

Vale Bene!

L.Aurelius Curio
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Re: What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

Postby Numerius Antonius Paullus » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:06 pm

Paulle Curio sal.

Do not get me wrong amice, I do understand, what could essentially be considered separation of "church and state" in the RR but that does not remove the possibility of a magistrate harming the CDR. By the statement being that a magistrate represents the RR, respectively they also represent the RR 's relationship with the CDR within the Republic and also in the larger community. So if a magistrate finds a way to mistreat their power (in whatever form that may be) affects and harms the relationship between the CDR and the Republic and in turn harms the image of the Republic among cultores who wish to seek a place to learn. I do ask patience with me as I am trying to form cohesive points after being awake for 24hours at work.

The long and the short of it is, that I do not disagree with the need for magistrates nor do I say that the ones we have are incapable of doing the jobs appointed to them. I only express that the more complex the system, the higher chance of a repeat of other failures to happen. All it would take is a cadre of like minded people to become elected who by their own plans only wish to use the Republic as a vehicle for their own means to absolutely ruin the relationship between the Republic and the CDR and the cultores within. It is a concern, nothing more. For I have seen it happen before in two places, my own club, and NR. This is not to say that the Republic is either, but it is a warning that one must be ever vigilant to be aware of such things or be doomed to find the Republic a ghost town bereft of the respect of the CDR community.

Valete bene

N. Antonius Paullus
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Re: What do we mean by a spiritual Roman nation? What role does the Roman Republic play?

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:55 pm

I second what Antonius Paullus said.
We have formidable magistrates in our Republic and it is a bright example for a working democratic structure, but the organizational structure itself is not helpful. It scares people away who would otherwise want to join, and it causes unnecessary frictions between members and creates an atmosphere of inequality when issues are discussed. Simple citizens may feel subconsciously intimidated by the titles and be less willing to speak freely.

It would be nice, if our Republic could become an umbrella organization for all Roman-related activities. But due to our organizational structure we get a lot of rejection from members of other organizations who do not know us well.

We should think about what will really help us to become more inclusive and to enable more cooperation with other communities. Our political offices certainly will not.
Would it not be great to have a central register of all people with Roman names and being able to certify their identity, no matter which organization they belong to?
Would it not be great, if other organizations would be able to use our forum to communicate instead of cumbersome Yahoo mailing lists or Facebook groups?
Would it not be great, if the Denarius was a real, fully convertible currency that citizens and non-citizens could use alike?
Would it not be great to become a platform, where different organizations could come together and coordinate their activities and projects?

This is not going to happen, while we have an own government and an own legislation. We appear too much as a closed community to the outside world. No outsider really understands the difference between us and Nova Roma.
Sometimes less can become more.
I would like to ask the Senate to give it a serious thought. Our political structure is not essential for our Republic. Giving it up could open many doors.

Valete, amici!
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