Roman Temples

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Re: Roman Temples

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Wed May 03, 2017 12:30 pm

Lucius Metilius Niger wrote:
I do not know why you associate members of the CPR with some kind of "fundamentalist" or racist, arrears. The CPR does not have these ideological orientations, not at all.
The Romanitas is universal in a sense. It is a living heritage all around the globe, not only in old Europe. Everyone is aware of it or almost. Me first.
The only arrogance that he can have, does not come from the CPR, and from its members, but only from me, who indeed does not fail to come to criticize you, to bother you, I admit, but this has since At the beginning, you may think I am insane, but I have always been honest and frank.
It is my only arrogance that you can blame, not that of all the European heirs of the Romanitas, and especially not the CPR, which works with benevolence and simplicity.
respectfuly


I did not mean an ideological orientation, I meant a personal attirude. And I did not particularly refer to you, carissime Niger, I mean all CPR members, people like Livia Plauta, who I highly estimate otherwise. Each time they mention "virtual republics" they look down on them. Memes like "Romanitas is no RPG" are also not helpful. (It is true of course, but it comes across, as if it is aimed at us.)
We are members of a "virtual republic" not because we have chosen so. We would all prefer to meet in person. But most of us are isolated from other followers of the Religio. We have no other choice but using the Internet. The CPR should appreciate our efforts, not look down on us. Help us to get more involved in real-live activities. Together we are stronger than each of us alone, and the whole is more than the sum of its parts.
It is very important that you are with us, Niger. You are the example how the cooperation between the CPR and our Republic should be. Do not get frustrated. Follow Brurus' advise and get even more involved. Even your criricism is important. It often puts us back into perspective.
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Re: Roman Temples

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Wed May 03, 2017 8:27 pm

I can not speak in the place of Livia, the Italians, the French, but what I can say is that I'm waiting with great impatience after you for create living, real, even small communities. we always start small. We are suspicious or indifferent to the virtual republics of the Nova Roma type who claims to reproduce the Old republic. You say that you are very different, but for most outside people, it is exactly the same thing. I'm sorry. Here it has been a long time since people think that virtual republics are a mistake now.
I would like you to be accepted by the Latin community (Italian, French, etc), that is why I allow myself to come regularly to criticize you, to harass you, because I am sad to see that you reproduce the same defects of The old republic (wars of egos, divisions, jealousies, oligarchy, run to titles of magistrates etc), and that the projects you should have (especially concerning the CDR) are polluted by these divisions, like role player gaming, and such complicated procedures they are long.
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Re: Roman Temples

Postby Gaius Cominius Laenas » Thu May 04, 2017 7:38 am

Lucius Metilius Niger wrote:I can not speak in the place of Livia, the Italians, the French, but what I can say is that I'm waiting with great impatience after you for create living, real, even small communities. we always start small. We are suspicious or indifferent to the virtual republics of the Nova Roma type who claims to reproduce the Old republic. You say that you are very different, but for most outside people, it is exactly the same thing. I'm sorry. Here it has been a long time since people think that virtual republics are a mistake now.
I would like you to be accepted by the Latin community (Italian, French, etc), that is why I allow myself to come regularly to criticize you, to harass you, because I am sad to see that you reproduce the same defects of The old republic (wars of egos, divisions, jealousies, oligarchy, run to titles of magistrates etc), and that the projects you should have (especially concerning the CDR) are polluted by these divisions, like role player gaming, and such complicated procedures they are long.



Say I want to found a group in the CPR. A tribus as you say from my RR province.

How do I do that? Who do I contact?

There is a saying in my country. There are more than one way to skin a cat. The CPR is one way. The RR is another.

The model used here by the RR works. Especially in most regions where cultores are very dispersed geographically. This is how most the world is, you do know that right?

The RR has led to the formation of a community in Michigan. This only happened because of the RR.

As we are happy to offer critiques, allow me to critique the CPR.

The CPR is almost isolationist. It makes no effort to contact North America or the English speaking world. You do know that huge advantages exist in expanding outside of a few limmited countries? Also the attitudes around religion in these other places are fertile for the CDR. Has the CPR produced any widely accepted literature or guides? Why does the CPR, or at least those who speak here for them, constantly critique others? What gives them legitimacy? The few gatherings they have a year? Does the CDR exist only a few days a year? What scholarship has the CPR performed? Why do they think they can judge what is effective or best or even legitimate? Why can they not get beyond the traumatic history of NR and comparing others to this history.

Does the RR go to CPR groups and critique them on snobbishness or isolationism or academic integrity behind practices? I doubt we do that with any regularity. So this raises critical questions. Is the CPR viable for spreading the CDR? Is the CPR inclusive? Does the CPR have the ability to produce collaborative works outside of a geographic region? Can the CPR disseminate scholarship on the CDR? What is the long term financial potential of many isolated and therefore small groups working without any coordination between regions?

As already said over and over, the RR does not aim to control any group. But the RR does desire to work with others and be recognized positively by others. In turn the RR wishes to do the same with their equal partners. Wouldn't it be nice to expand the CPR into America and have the RR as a means of doing so? Wouldn't it be nice if the CPR and RR worked together to produce resources? Wouldn't it be nice if most people in the community belonged happily to both groups? Would this not provide a better experience for all? Would this not lead to larger and stronger communities?

This starts by finding common ground, talking friendly and working towards common goals together. Not with critiques or any sense of false superiority.

Niger, I will tell you the reality where I live. The RR is THE main means of forming any Roman community. Any community about Rome has a better chance of forming becsuse of the RR. Those magistrates you critique, they are THE key people growing the CDR across vast lands that are greater than all of Europe on geographic scale and also containing a huge portion of the global population. If you think they are polluting the CDR you are delusional. They are actually the champions of the CDR today. They are the main advocates for the CDR. The CPR only stands to gain from their work. The day that people in the CPR recognize the goodness and effectiveness of the RR is the day the whole CDR will reach a new level of global maturity.

The future is obvious. We network and find common ground and ignore small differences and grow. Or we continue to critique and highlight differences and stagnate.

It's clear what the RR desires. Gods willing the RR can finally help crack the tough nut of egotism that creates walls between groups.

Let us not forget. There is ONE group that has actually followed through and reached out to literally every CDR associated group. That group is the RR. So instead of talk, where is the reciprocal collaborative effort. No one can critique the RR on that.
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Re: Roman Temples

Postby Quintus Furius Camillus » Thu May 04, 2017 11:44 am

SALVETE!

Has anyone here sat down and looked at the CPR constitution?

I drop my best attempt at translating it here.

It is a dainty read.

traduction-statuts-cpr-complete.fr.en.pdf
(1.06 MiB) Downloaded 20 times



How is the CPR senate doing these days? How about their Censores? The Quaestores? The Consules?! Those damned magistrates and their slimy hypocrisy can get so bothersome some days...

You really are a dirt bag mate. Take a look at your own constitution and ask yourself how well you are reflecting its lofty ideals. This hypocrisy is the reason the CDR stays small and isolated. Why lie and hide behind the language barrier? You want to keep us divided and suspicious of each other? How about you try putting community over self interest and distorting good intentions to fit your desires.

The CPR constitution is 75% the same as the RR bylaws! Fully the same spirit and general concept behind the two documents.

Also if you can't understand the English bylaws as they are not your native language don't just confabulate and start saying you know what the organization is about. That is no excuse. Especially after the nature of the RR has been explained a few times to you already.

VALETE!


We are suspicious or indifferent to the virtual republics of the Nova Roma type who claims to reproduce the Old republic. You say that you are very different, but for most outside people, it is exactly the same thing. I'm sorry. Here it has been a long time since people think that virtual republics are a mistake now.
I would like you to be accepted by the Latin community (Italian, French, etc), that is why I allow myself to come regularly to criticize you, to harass you, because I am sad to see that you reproduce the same defects of The old republic (wars of egos, divisions, jealousies, oligarchy, run to titles of magistrates etc), and that the projects you should have (especially concerning the CDR) are polluted by these divisions,

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Re: Roman Temples

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Thu May 04, 2017 4:06 pm

Hello,

At present, the CPR has a constitution created by Massimo, at the time of its foundation a few years ago and which indeed resembles a virtual republic, something that I personally regret. But this Constitution needs to be reviewed and simplified, because it is not viable in reality. Massimo, who was a little too political, had Marxist Leninist views, and planned to make the CPR a political as well as a religious group. Since then he has left, and other people have taken over the relay, accentuating activities on CDR and real encounters. There are always votes, a senate, tribes, etc., but what was too complicated was dismissed, in order to privilege the essential: the local meetings, and the good will above all.

We (french cultores) are now thinking of the possible ways to legally integrate the Italian CPR, because today only a moral fraternity unites us, as is the case with Costa Rica ( Tribal opalina) and Brazil (vila paga). Anyway, it will not stop us from going hand in hand.

Our goal is not to look like the RR, or NR or RPR, we try to do the reverse, ie avoid creating too long and tedious procedures and laws, and avoid divisions related to egocentrism , Or political ideologies.

Only the CDR, the Romanitas binds us, and unites us, as with you,

The CPR is far from being a perfect organization, of course, but I believe that what makes it an organization that has the future is that it starts at the beginning, by humble things I believe : To dynamize and coordinate the local tribes, with a view to coordinating the meetings on the International.

We have no global vision and ambition, we are not "isolationists" but just realistic. We know that it will not be possible to unite all the cultores of the world and we do not want it. It is true that the language barrier is important, many Italians and French do not master English alas.

We just want to allow people to see each other as regularly as possible, and above all to practice the CDR in a humble, convivial and sincere way. The rest is of little importance to us, and especially not the "Politics" of the Roman groups, or the "imperialist" ambitions of some.

We are open to friendships and fraternities, on the condition that our Roman brothers do not lose themselves in virtual complications, complex procedures and disproportionate ambitions.

We do not seek to unite polytheists with academics and reenactors. We know that it is illusory to pretend to unite all the world, and dangerous to want to mix genres.

Livia Plauta was an old NR and RPR, today she knows the boundaries of the virtual republics, and sees in the CPR the type of organization on a "human" scale, sincere, humble and convivial. All we need for our Religio.
Politics does not interest us.

Today the majority of Italians and French are indifferent to the RR, but that does not mean they are your enemies, quite the contrary. It is true that Livia and I have a suspicious look towards you, you know, but it is mainly because of the internal wars you are engaging in, your too heavy laws, and the liabilities of the NR that still haunts your organization.

There is the language barrier, there is also mistrust of virtual organizations of the NR type, but also the fact that today you can not manage to CDR in real. This is not a reproach, it is a finding.

If you show that you are coordinating the North American community, and you are organizing meetings, annual rituals, etc., I think that the cultores of europe will be very happy, and will give you much more credibility than today.

I really believe in it, and it is really the reason that makes me be here, with you, we are not enemies, we are your brothers and sisters of Pietas, this is a certainty.

The critics are not "attacks" but opinions, opinions, suggestions of people who have been expedited in polytheistic groups, real encounters, coordination between the Internet and reality, so that one day we can meet with each other. Officer together rituals, to meet at congresses etc.

As long as you do not get lost in "virtual games", we will always be your friends.
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Re: Roman Temples

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Thu May 04, 2017 5:18 pm

Have you ever heard the phrase "He who needs to say he's a King is no King"? I'm starting to think that works with "humility" as well. Honestly, you constantly say you and your group are humble, but to this day I see nothing of it. On the contrary, all I see is malice and pride. I've seen your conversations in facebook and other media Niger. I understand enough of french to understand it... You mock the RR behind its back constantly and treat us like idiots. Even when we asked you to help and participate you mocked that to your friends as us being "arrogant"... Sincerely all I ever seen here was a group trying to do something very hard (for free) and you looking down on it constantly.

We have a lot of rules? Aye, we do. And those rules make so no one has ever been expelled or mistreated inside the RR. Everything has a procedure and every administrator has to be accountable.

You talked with malice of our titles when your CPR has just as many titles if not more... Why you never mentioned that? For me that shows foul play, sincerely... When will you admit that we just have titles that divide Functions and Responsibilities and that this is normal for any organization? When will you admit the work being done tirelessly by our people to help spread the CDR and create conditions for meetups in the real world? Don't come with me with your arrogance. When Pharia was born it had 4 members. That was in 2014? 2013? Now it has around 20. After all these years. 20. And you come to us and demand we have rustling and bustling communities after only ONE year? I'll tell you what you are Niger, a bully and a hypocrite.

The RR has only shown good faith towards you and your people. Even after constant attacks we showed you good faith and accepted your application for Procurator. Even after constant attacks we still invited you to be part of the Solution instead of the Problem. And you spat on our outstretched hand. All while still posting "with frindship and fraternity". You do not fool anyone with those words.

Livia dislikes the RR because she sees it as a competition, not because it is a "virtual republic". The CPR has the structure of a "virtual republic". The real thing Im seeing here is you guys seeing the RR as some kind of threat and trying desperately to kill it or at least make it uninteresting for Europeans so not to threaten your little empire. Well, guess what? The RR doesnt want to take away your crown. It doesnt care about your petty narcisism. It wants to help unite groups and work together. The day you find out you want that too, let me know. Until then, you are still a two-faced hypocrite and an embarassment to our Gods and ancestors.

Have a nice day...
"Ignis aurum probat" - Seneca
C. Curtius L. f. Vot. Philo Aurelianus
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Re: Roman Temples

Postby Publius Iunius Brutus » Thu May 04, 2017 8:40 pm

Brutus sal.

I long suspected such political motivations and double standards. Especially after a short communication with a CPR "Censor" a few months ago. Alas, I think good old Marcus Aurelius says it best in this case.

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Re: Roman Temples

Postby Titus Flavius Severus » Thu May 04, 2017 10:35 pm

Salvete,

O tempora, o mores! Niger ferox verbis est. Errare humanum est, stultum est in errore perseverare.

Valete bene,
T. Fl. Severus
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Re: Roman Temples

Postby Gaius Cominius Laenas » Thu May 04, 2017 11:40 pm

Lucius Metilius Niger wrote:Hello,

At present, the CPR has a constitution created by Massimo, at the time of its foundation a few years ago and which indeed resembles a virtual republic, something that I personally regret. But this Constitution needs to be reviewed and simplified, because it is not viable in reality. Massimo, who was a little too political, had Marxist Leninist views, and planned to make the CPR a political as well as a religious group. Since then he has left, and other people have taken over the relay, accentuating activities on CDR and real encounters. There are always votes, a senate, tribes, etc., but what was too complicated was dismissed, in order to privilege the essential: the local meetings, and the good will above all.

We (french cultores) are now thinking of the possible ways to legally integrate the Italian CPR, because today only a moral fraternity unites us, as is the case with Costa Rica ( Tribal opalina) and Brazil (vila paga). Anyway, it will not stop us from going hand in hand.

Our goal is not to look like the RR, or NR or RPR, we try to do the reverse, ie avoid creating too long and tedious procedures and laws, and avoid divisions related to egocentrism , Or political ideologies.

Only the CDR, the Romanitas binds us, and unites us, as with you,

The CPR is far from being a perfect organization, of course, but I believe that what makes it an organization that has the future is that it starts at the beginning, by humble things I believe : To dynamize and coordinate the local tribes, with a view to coordinating the meetings on the International.

We have no global vision and ambition, we are not "isolationists" but just realistic. We know that it will not be possible to unite all the cultores of the world and we do not want it. It is true that the language barrier is important, many Italians and French do not master English alas.

We just want to allow people to see each other as regularly as possible, and above all to practice the CDR in a humble, convivial and sincere way. The rest is of little importance to us, and especially not the "Politics" of the Roman groups, or the "imperialist" ambitions of some.

We are open to friendships and fraternities, on the condition that our Roman brothers do not lose themselves in virtual complications, complex procedures and disproportionate ambitions.

We do not seek to unite polytheists with academics and reenactors. We know that it is illusory to pretend to unite all the world, and dangerous to want to mix genres.

Livia Plauta was an old NR and RPR, today she knows the boundaries of the virtual republics, and sees in the CPR the type of organization on a "human" scale, sincere, humble and convivial. All we need for our Religio.
Politics does not interest us.

Today the majority of Italians and French are indifferent to the RR, but that does not mean they are your enemies, quite the contrary. It is true that Livia and I have a suspicious look towards you, you know, but it is mainly because of the internal wars you are engaging in, your too heavy laws, and the liabilities of the NR that still haunts your organization.

There is the language barrier, there is also mistrust of virtual organizations of the NR type, but also the fact that today you can not manage to CDR in real. This is not a reproach, it is a finding.

If you show that you are coordinating the North American community, and you are organizing meetings, annual rituals, etc., I think that the cultores of europe will be very happy, and will give you much more credibility than today.

I really believe in it, and it is really the reason that makes me be here, with you, we are not enemies, we are your brothers and sisters of Pietas, this is a certainty.

The critics are not "attacks" but opinions, opinions, suggestions of people who have been expedited in polytheistic groups, real encounters, coordination between the Internet and reality, so that one day we can meet with each other. Officer together rituals, to meet at congresses etc.

As long as you do not get lost in "virtual games", we will always be your friends.


The CPR Consules, and Senate are as much a "game" as ours. Hypocrite. You want it both ways.

The only differences I see between the CPR and RR is two. First the geographic focus of the RR is larger so people in areas without many people are still able to participate. Second, the RR is not only focused on the CDR.

The structure is more similar than different. It's so funny that this has been used as THE excuse to critique the work being done here. It just does not stand up. Who here is political? Who is distorting reality for their own personal agenda. Let's have the documents speak for themselves.

RR governing docs - http://www.romanrepublic.org/wip/Roman% ... _final.pdf
CPR governing docs - http://romanrepublic.org/forum/download/file.php?id=733
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Re: Roman Temples

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Fri May 05, 2017 10:07 am

Hello,

So I'm sorry, but I can not decently continue to let you call me hypocrit all the time.

I consider that I have been fairly frank and courageous for almost a year now to have come to register on this forum, and on Facebook, thinking that I can express myself freely, to express my opinions, my doubts, And some of my criticisms, see also if indeed my doubts were confirmed; Hoping until yesterday still, that we could work together despite everything, despite our different points of view, or our different ways of carrying out a number of objectives related to the Romanity, and specifically the Roman religion. (Via internet or real)

Alas, there are not only great distances which separate us, and if we are undoubtedly "Brothers of Piety", for some of you, in a sense, we do not have the same views and The same approaches to promote the Roman religion in a humble and living way. In any case as we imagine here in Europe. We don't want to be "subservient" to the RR, directly or indirectly. clearly.

I consider that the CDR must be real, practiced in reality, and between cultores, in a convivial, humble way (that's why I speak of humility, yes), and not through pompous and pretentious virtual scaffolding. (Such as the distribution of titles of magistrates when in reality they are only virtual posts: moderation, etc.)

You are focused on virtual institutions, outdated, and heavy, pompous, and you think that the CPR does like you? You are wrong. The difference is that we do not play role role we, and we do not pretend to be the Roman Republic. The titles used in the CPR are 100% functional, they do not serve to make them an idle display, to boast and shine, or to explode any authority in the face of people. I encourage you to discuss with our Consul Vanessa, instead of contacting a censor (Dario Arceri) by means roundabout.

You can withdraw my candidacy for the post of "Procurator" (term so pompous and pretentious there too) of the Gauls as well as my citizenship within your web-site, forum, etc. I also expect you to delete my account as soon as possible.

It is a shame, a minimum of cooperation between us, even fragile could have been valuable to you. But it's probably better that way. I do not lose anything, you lose a lot. Find this pretentious if you want.

I do not leave as an enemy, since we are not really enemy, and I do not consider myself as your enemy, and I do not consider you as enemies, but confreres, I simply do not have time to play Role play with you guys, and conduct small civil wars. In another life can be?
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