Discussing Precatio - Stage IV [SOCIETAS NUMAEA]

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Discussing Precatio - Stage IV [SOCIETAS NUMAEA]

Postby Lucius Curtius Philo » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:21 pm

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Salvete!

Just to recap. The Societas Numaea has been founded to create a standardized ceremonial text for the sacra publica. This text is to be as historically mindful as possible. See http://www.romanrepublic.org/forum/view ... ?f=7&t=531

Through consensus on our research the Societas Numaea has determined that all ceremonies within this publication are to have the following "stages":

Code: Select all

I. Purificatio - purification of self, offerings, altar with water

II. Praefatio - address (+/- offerings of wine / incense) to Ianus and Vesta. Light any fires/burners on altar

III. Salutatio - Here additional deities are invited to attend the ceremony and are greeted, this always includes the primary deities receiving an offering, but includes others as well. Here offerings of wine or incense are often made, each deity is addressed individually and receives an individual libation or offering of incense

IV. Precatio - 4 PARTS:
(I) Address the primary deity/deities being honored (offerings of wine/incense made)
(II) Statement made explaining why the sacrifice is occurring
(III) present what is being offered
(IV) statement regarding the desired result(s) from the ceremony

V. Immolatio - Make the primary sacrifice to the deity/deities being honored

VI. Redditio - (Optional) Here any additional offerings to the deities invited to attend the ceremony occur

VII. Piaculum - Statements made to each deity addressed in ceremony for reparation for any unnoticed error in the ceremony. Vesta is always addressed last.



On this post, I would like to discuss the third stage, Precatio.

We have determined that this stage will have four steps. These steps are;

(I) Address the primary deity/deities being honored (offerings of wine/incense made)
(II) Statement made explaining why the sacrifice is occurring
(III) present what is being offered
(IV) statement regarding the desired result(s) from the ceremony

What are the essential components of these steps? What particular formula should be used at each step? What are acceptable sacrifices? Should we define acceptable sacrifices? If so, should this be specific to particular deities?

I'm interested in hearing your ideas. Later I will share my thoughts.

valete.

Philo
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Re: Discussing Precatio - Stage IV [SOCIETAS NUMAEA]

Postby Gaia Cassia Longina » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:01 pm

I think this is very good! Maybe we should include a list of appropriate offerings? :)
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Re: Discussing Precatio - Stage IV [SOCIETAS NUMAEA]

Postby Lucius Vitellius Triarius » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:04 pm

Cassia, on sacrifices, here is an incomplete list from Piscinus' writings at:

http://www.societasviaromana.net/Colleg ... ifices.php

Nero probably has more on his blog or files somewhere.

Following the erection of arae then, the most common offering used on them, ancient or modern, is that of incense or the burning of aromatic herbs. Herbs used for all gods and goddesses are myrtle, bay laurel and juniper, while frankincense, myrrh, nard, gum Arabic and orris root are common incenses. Cut flowers and floral wreaths are another common offering. Certain herbs and flowers are more closely associated with certain goddesses and gods than others. An incomplete list of these associations is given below:

Adonis: fennel, barley, roses.

Apollo: bay laurel, hyacinth.

Asclepius: butterfly weed, milkweed, mustard, thin-leaf parsnip.

Castor and Pollux: frankincense.

Ceres: barley, dittany of Crete, hyacinth, pennyroyal, poppies, spelt, storax.

Chiron: chiron vine, greater centaury, St. John’s wort, wormwood, yarrow.

Diana: hazel, jasmine, lavender, mandrake, rosemary, wormwood.

Faunus: peony, myrtle.

Faustus: ivy, pine.

Hecate: garlic, hemlock, mandrake, rue.

Hercules: henbane, herb Robert, opopanax, oregano, monkshood.

Iuno: iris, lily, orris root, saffron.

Iuppiter: benzoin, cassia, cinnamon, marjoram, saffron, sage, vervain.

Lares: myrtle, juniper.

Liber and Libera: honey, ivy, mint, pennyroyal, cinnamon, frankincense.

Mercury: dill, hellebore niger, marjoram, mercurialis, myrtle.

Mars: cinnamon, red clover, peony.

Minerva: ampelos or chiron vine, olive, rosemary.

Pales: basil.

Priapus: lotus tree.

Proserpina: hyacinth, mandrake, mint, myrtle, parsley, rosemary, rue, violet.

Quirinus: juniper.

Saturnus: costus, storax, violets.

Venus: ambergris, fennel, lily, marjoram, myrtle, rose.

Vesta: bay laurel, juniper, violets.

Libations of unmixed wine may be offered to any of the goddesses and gods, with the exception of Ceres, Tellus, and Pales, to whom only milk, or honey mixed in water or in milk is offered. Wine offered in a libation to Fauna, the Bona Dea, may be made, provided it is referred to only as milk and to its container as a honey pot, while no myrtle may be offered to Her. One may also note a passage from Virgil, Eclogue 7.33-34: Sinum lactis et haec te liba, Priape, quotannis exspectare sat est: custos es pauperis horti. (A bowl of milk, Priapus, and these cakes, yearly, it is enough for you to claim; you are the guardian of a poor man's plot.) Following in the tradition of Numa, milk is a more acceptable general libation.
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Re: Discussing Precatio - Stage IV [SOCIETAS NUMAEA]

Postby Procula Valeria Messalla » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:00 am

Lucius Vitellius Triarius wrote:Cassia, on sacrifices, here is an incomplete list from Piscinus' writings at:

http://www.societasviaromana.net/Colleg ... ifices.php

Nero probably has more on his blog or files somewhere.

Following the erection of arae then, the most common offering used on them, ancient or modern, is that of incense or the burning of aromatic herbs. Herbs used for all gods and goddesses are myrtle, bay laurel and juniper, while frankincense, myrrh, nard, gum Arabic and orris root are common incenses. Cut flowers and floral wreaths are another common offering. Certain herbs and flowers are more closely associated with certain goddesses and gods than others. An incomplete list of these associations is given below:

Adonis: fennel, barley, roses.

Apollo: bay laurel, hyacinth.

Asclepius: butterfly weed, milkweed, mustard, thin-leaf parsnip.

Castor and Pollux: frankincense.

Ceres: barley, dittany of Crete, hyacinth, pennyroyal, poppies, spelt, storax.

Chiron: chiron vine, greater centaury, St. John’s wort, wormwood, yarrow.

Diana: hazel, jasmine, lavender, mandrake, rosemary, wormwood.

Faunus: peony, myrtle.

Faustus: ivy, pine.

Hecate: garlic, hemlock, mandrake, rue.

Hercules: henbane, herb Robert, opopanax, oregano, monkshood.

Iuno: iris, lily, orris root, saffron.

Iuppiter: benzoin, cassia, cinnamon, marjoram, saffron, sage, vervain.

Lares: myrtle, juniper.

Liber and Libera: honey, ivy, mint, pennyroyal, cinnamon, frankincense.

Mercury: dill, hellebore niger, marjoram, mercurialis, myrtle.

Mars: cinnamon, red clover, peony.

Minerva: ampelos or chiron vine, olive, rosemary.

Pales: basil.

Priapus: lotus tree.

Proserpina: hyacinth, mandrake, mint, myrtle, parsley, rosemary, rue, violet.

Quirinus: juniper.

Saturnus: costus, storax, violets.

Venus: ambergris, fennel, lily, marjoram, myrtle, rose.

Vesta: bay laurel, juniper, violets.

Libations of unmixed wine may be offered to any of the goddesses and gods, with the exception of Ceres, Tellus, and Pales, to whom only milk, or honey mixed in water or in milk is offered. Wine offered in a libation to Fauna, the Bona Dea, may be made, provided it is referred to only as milk and to its container as a honey pot, while no myrtle may be offered to Her. One may also note a passage from Virgil, Eclogue 7.33-34: Sinum lactis et haec te liba, Priape, quotannis exspectare sat est: custos es pauperis horti. (A bowl of milk, Priapus, and these cakes, yearly, it is enough for you to claim; you are the guardian of a poor man's plot.) Following in the tradition of Numa, milk is a more acceptable general libation.


So what source does SVR use for this information?
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Re: Discussing Precatio - Stage IV [SOCIETAS NUMAEA]

Postby Lucius Vitellius Triarius » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:32 am

Procula Valeria Messalla wrote:
Lucius Vitellius Triarius wrote:Cassia, on sacrifices, here is an incomplete list from Piscinus' writings at:

http://www.societasviaromana.net/Colleg ... ifices.php

Nero probably has more on his blog or files somewhere.

Following the erection of arae then, the most common offering used on them, ancient or modern, is that of incense or the burning of aromatic herbs. Herbs used for all gods and goddesses are myrtle, bay laurel and juniper, while frankincense, myrrh, nard, gum Arabic and orris root are common incenses. Cut flowers and floral wreaths are another common offering. Certain herbs and flowers are more closely associated with certain goddesses and gods than others. An incomplete list of these associations is given below:

Adonis: fennel, barley, roses.

Apollo: bay laurel, hyacinth.

Asclepius: butterfly weed, milkweed, mustard, thin-leaf parsnip.

Castor and Pollux: frankincense.

Ceres: barley, dittany of Crete, hyacinth, pennyroyal, poppies, spelt, storax.

Chiron: chiron vine, greater centaury, St. John’s wort, wormwood, yarrow.

Diana: hazel, jasmine, lavender, mandrake, rosemary, wormwood.

Faunus: peony, myrtle.

Faustus: ivy, pine.

Hecate: garlic, hemlock, mandrake, rue.

Hercules: henbane, herb Robert, opopanax, oregano, monkshood.

Iuno: iris, lily, orris root, saffron.

Iuppiter: benzoin, cassia, cinnamon, marjoram, saffron, sage, vervain.

Lares: myrtle, juniper.

Liber and Libera: honey, ivy, mint, pennyroyal, cinnamon, frankincense.

Mercury: dill, hellebore niger, marjoram, mercurialis, myrtle.

Mars: cinnamon, red clover, peony.

Minerva: ampelos or chiron vine, olive, rosemary.

Pales: basil.

Priapus: lotus tree.

Proserpina: hyacinth, mandrake, mint, myrtle, parsley, rosemary, rue, violet.

Quirinus: juniper.

Saturnus: costus, storax, violets.

Venus: ambergris, fennel, lily, marjoram, myrtle, rose.

Vesta: bay laurel, juniper, violets.

Libations of unmixed wine may be offered to any of the goddesses and gods, with the exception of Ceres, Tellus, and Pales, to whom only milk, or honey mixed in water or in milk is offered. Wine offered in a libation to Fauna, the Bona Dea, may be made, provided it is referred to only as milk and to its container as a honey pot, while no myrtle may be offered to Her. One may also note a passage from Virgil, Eclogue 7.33-34: Sinum lactis et haec te liba, Priape, quotannis exspectare sat est: custos es pauperis horti. (A bowl of milk, Priapus, and these cakes, yearly, it is enough for you to claim; you are the guardian of a poor man's plot.) Following in the tradition of Numa, milk is a more acceptable general libation.


So what source does SVR use for this information?


M. Porcius Cato, De Agricultura.
M. Tullius Cicero, De re publica; Tusculan Disputations; pro Roscio Amerino.
T. Livius, Ab Urbe Condita libri.
P. Ovidius Naso, Fasti; Metamorphoses.
G. Plinius Secundus, Natural History.
Plutarch, Parallel Lives: Numa.
Sallustius, On the Gods.
P. Vergilius Maro, Georgica; Eclogues.
Fowler, W. W., The Roman Festivals of the Period of the Republic, London, 1899.
Scullard, H. H., Festivals and Ceremonies of the Roman Republic, London, 1981.
Beard, M. and North, J., Religions of Rome; Cambridge, 1998.
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Re: Discussing Precatio - Stage IV [SOCIETAS NUMAEA]

Postby Publius Iunius Brutus » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:00 pm

Brutus sal.

If we take that above list and add the following sources:

Kauppi, Lynn Allan. Foreign but Familiar Gods: Greco-Romans Read Religion in Acts. London: T & T Clark, 2006.

Bodel, John P., and Saul M. Olyan. Household and Family Religion in Antiquity. Malden, MA: Blackwell Pub., 2008.

Knust, Jennifer Wright, and Zsuzsanna Várhelyi. Ancient Mediterranean Sacrifice. New York: Oxford UP, 2011.

Smoke Signals for the Gods: Ancient Greek Sacrifice from the Archaic Through Roman Periods. S.l.: Oxford UP, 2015.

Turcan, Robert. The Gods of Ancient Rome: Religion in Everyday Life from Archaic to Imperial times. New York: Routledge, 2001.

Ogilvie, R. M. The Romans and Their Gods in the Age of Augustus. New York: Norton, 1970.

Orr, David Gerald. Roman Domestic Religion: A Study of the Roman Household Deities and Their Shrines at Pompeii and Herculaneum, 1972.

Sofroniew, Alexandra. Household Gods: Private Devotion in Ancient Greece and Rome. Los Angeles: J. Paul Getty Museum, 2015.

We get this list: http://romanrepublic.org/bibliotheca/wiki/ceremony.html
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Re: Discussing Precatio - Stage IV [SOCIETAS NUMAEA]

Postby Lucius Curtius Philo » Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:56 am

Salvete,

Are there any ideas to be added on this most important stage?

valete.

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Re: Discussing Precatio - Stage IV [SOCIETAS NUMAEA]

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:00 pm

It would be good to see what the Learned here consider an appropriate way to make this step. As of now it has not been thoroughly defined like in the previous ones.
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Re: Discussing Precatio - Stage IV [SOCIETAS NUMAEA]

Postby Lucius Curtius Philo » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:54 am

Gaius Aurelius Victor wrote:It would be good to see what the Learned here consider an appropriate way to make this step. As of now it has not been thoroughly defined like in the previous ones.


I have some ideas about this. But before I comment, does anyone else have any insight?
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Re: Discussing Precatio - Stage IV [SOCIETAS NUMAEA]

Postby Lucius Curtius Philo » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:37 am

Salvete,

I would now like to share my thoughts on the precatio.

During this stage, the Gods and Goddesses which are receiving a primary offering during the next stage, immolatio, are greeted again, and a petition outlining the reason for the sacrifice is stated. The offering is presented, and the desired response from the deity is addressed.

My research has shown that the basic elements of this stage are similar to those in the previous stages.

I. This stage begins by washing of the hands again in pure water. We defined "pure" water when discussing the purificatio stage.

II. Next, the deity receiving the primary offering in the immolatio is addressed with the typical format. Again this is performed with the following format used in the salutatio.

a. {PRIMARY NAME} {EPITHET I}, {LIST ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES], known by {PEOPLE/LOCATION FIRST RECOGNIZING DEITY}...

b. {PRIMARY NAME} and {ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES], and {ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES}, and {ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES} etc...

c. {PEOPLE/LOCATION FIRST RECOGNIZING DEITY} call you {PRIMARY NAME} {ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES}, and {ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES}, and {ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES} etc...

d. {PRIMARY NAME} or {ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES} or {ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES} etc...

e. {PRIMARY NAME} also known as {ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES} and {ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES} and..


III. Following this greeting, a statement is made addressing why the sacrifice is being made. This does not address what is desired by the deity. Instead, the reason why this particular deity is being observed is stated. The particular qualities of the deity which makes this God or Goddess a good choice for the desired petition is stated. Often past petitions which were granted by the deity are noted. If a particular day is special to the God or Goddess in question this is stated here as well.

IV. Next, the offering that will be made is presented on the altar or at the lararium. At this point, the following is spoken as the offering is presented;

{PRIMARY NAME} {EPITHET I}, {LIST ADDITIONAL EPITHETS / DESCRIPTIVE FEATURES OR QUALITIES...}
for these reasons, towards this aim, in recognition of your benevolence, and if it pleases you, accept this offering of {NAME OF OFFERING} which I have placed before you and will give unto you...


V. After the offering is presented, the petition made to the deity is stated. This has two parts. First, the help desired is stated. Next, the desired outcome resulting from the divine assistance is stated.

VI. This phase ends by washing the hands again in pure water and drying them.


Are there any additional opinions in regards to this format? This outline was created based on reviewing several examples within the sources and by distilling the common unifying themes into a consistent format.


valete.

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