Spiritual and ideological content of CDR

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Spiritual and ideological content of CDR

Postby Marcus Flavius Celsus » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:24 am

Salvete omnes!

Today I would like to raise the question that bothers me the last few years. I'm saw a lot of modern politheists in Roman Groups (NR, RR, CDR e.t.c), but still don't understand. I see a pack of rituals and directions, calendars and prayers - but this is material and formal serving of religion. What about spiritual?

Christianity have a lot of answers for any questions - they not always clear and pleasant, but exist. Christianity answers: where we are from, where we are going and what is allowed on the way or not. Christianity educates us a manner of action, manner of thinking.

I will say that I am not a Christian by faith, but I encounter in my life with some cultural things that society around me holds.

So here is main questions to discuss:

1. What CDR is teaching us?
I mean not rituals and worships, i mean ideas, patterns of behavior.

2. What is the sense of CDR?
Do not want offend anyone, but for example - Christianity teaches us what if we will lead a righteous life, we will get to paradise. And I understand what "paradise" - Elysium, is Hellenistic concept, but if CDR do same thing, then I have another question

3. What is righteous life for CDR?
Where the cannones and rules for righteous life? What way to live and be clean before the Gods?
I tried to search myself answer for this question and find what basis for "rules of life" for Hellenist was an Myths about the Gods, but considering them in detail we will meet with such things as - incest, adultery, massacres e.t.c.
I clearly understand what Hellenistics myths is was a "normal" at the time when they were written and modern morality is powerless in trying to understand and accept the course of life in those days.
But on what to rely on the modern polytheist in his life?

Say again - I don't want to offend someone, or worse. I'm a lost seeker.

Vale!
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Re: Spiritual and ideological content of CDR

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:50 pm

Salve Celse!

Good questions. I will give a general answer and then answer each question individually.

The CDR is a Polythetic religion. What does this mean? It means it does not have ONE belief system. Christianity is (not really, but it tries to be) monothetic, in the sense thst they see ONE truth and that if you dont follow it you are not of the religion. This creates the illusion that the CDR does not have any spiritual teaching. In truth its teaching is very diverse and depends a lot on personal philosophy, but there are some common denominators.

What does the CDR teach? The most important moral principle one can learn by the CDR is the concept of Pietas. This concept is fundamental to understand the CDR. Without it the CDR does not make sense. It is the notion of mutual obligation and devotion. People have devotion to the Gods. The Gods to those that are devoted to them. But that goes a lot beyond the Gods. It is the mutual obligations between Parent and Child, between Citizen and State, between Neighbors, between Spouses, between Friends. Basically, the social and ethical glue that ties Humanity together. That is, in a way, the primary spiritual lesson one can get from the CDR. But being a polythetic system it is very open to other interpretations and lessons. There were and are Stoic Cultores, Epicurian Cultores, Cynic Cultores Eccletic Cultores; and now a days there can be cultores of almost any philosophy. How a cultor blends his beliefs with his religion is virtually limitless.

What is the purpose of the CDR? The CDR is not a religion of Salvation. There IS a notion of a "good place" and a "bad place", usually Elysium and Tartarus (but again, being a polythetic religion this varies a lot). People get to it via Pietas. But the afterlife is not the focus of the CDR. It is just a natural consequence of our actions on Earth. The focus of the CDR is the PRESENT life. It is to propitiate the Gods so that they bless us TODAY. The CDR tries to make your LIFE good, and does not focus on what happens after you die. It is not as important for the religion in general. It is a religion of the living.

If you want to know more of the views of the afterlife, I direct you to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1862

What is a Rightious Life for the CDR? Like I said before, being a polythetic religion, you will not get ONE answer. It depends a lot on a person's personal philosophy. That doesnt mean No answer exists, just that it is not only ONE. But a GENERAL PRINCIPLE is that a rightious life involves having Pietas. Basically: Cultivate the natural relations between yourself and the Gods and with the ones around you. It is VERY common sense driven, in this. It is something you can understand clearly just vy the word "good". Be a good father. Be a good son. Be a good neighhor. Be a good citizen. Be a good friend. Be a good husband. Anyone can understand here what I mean by Good, although most dont follow the common sense they already know of. It is more a question of Action than of Philosophical nuance-discussion.

I hope this answers your questions. If not, please continue asking. Show me where I wasnt clear and I will do whatever I can to help!

Vale
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Re: Spiritual and ideological content of CDR

Postby Procula Valeria Messalla » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:10 pm

Salve Praetor!

I find this document handy when reminding myself of the basic ideas behind the CDR.

http://romanrepublic.org/bibliotheca/wi ... ation.html

It does not answer all the questions. But it is a nice starting place.
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Re: Spiritual and ideological content of CDR

Postby Caeso Cispius Laevus » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:19 am

Procula Valeria Messalla wrote:Salve Praetor!

I find this document handy when reminding myself of the basic ideas behind the CDR.

http://romanrepublic.org/bibliotheca/wi ... ation.html

It does not answer all the questions. But it is a nice starting place.



Sal.

Valeria, this is a beautiful document. Who created it? Consul Philo? Why is it not ratified? Is it contentious or controversial in some way?
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Re: Spiritual and ideological content of CDR

Postby Gaius Florius Lupus » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:17 am

Salvete!

I asked a similar question in the thread "Cultus Deorum et ethos", which Curtius Philo Aurelianus nicely answered.

I appreciate that the Cultus Deorum is different from Christianity in this regard.
Indeed Christiaity gives a lot of answers to everything. The problem is that Christianity even gives answers, when it is not asked. I do not need religion to explain to me the origin of species or of the universe, this is what science is for. Neither do I need a religion to tell me, which food is good for me, or what I have to do in every siruation in life. I turn to philosophy for ethical guidance and do not need religion for this.
This excessive number of answers to everything, which is so typical for some religions is the root cause of intolerance, religious persecution and religious wars, because people cannot agree on these answers, and according to them they are not subject to reason, so that rational arguments like in philosophy are impossible and they have to resort to physical violence (argumentum ad baculum) to convince their opponents.

For this reason classical Greco-Roman religion is best suited for philosophers. It leaves enough space for each individual to find his own answers. The respect for individual spiritualty, the sacra privata, the tolerance of the ways of others while at the same time common basic principles are adhered creating the fundament of coexistence among humans themslves and among humans and nature (or the gods), this is what makes the Religio Romana so special.

Valete!
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Re: Spiritual and ideological content of CDR

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:21 pm

Caeso Cispius Laevus wrote:
Procula Valeria Messalla wrote:Salve Praetor!

I find this document handy when reminding myself of the basic ideas behind the CDR.

http://romanrepublic.org/bibliotheca/wi ... ation.html

It does not answer all the questions. But it is a nice starting place.



Sal.

Valeria, this is a beautiful document. Who created it? Consul Philo? Why is it not ratified? Is it contentious or controversial in some way?


It was made primarily, I believe (and sorry if I forgot some people), by my father, Brutus and Hostilia.

It is not controversial. We just don't have a Collegium Pontificum yet to ratify it.
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Re: Spiritual and ideological content of CDR

Postby Appius Claudius Tuscus » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:25 am

Salvete, Cultores -

If a non-cultor may speak, Celsus, I should like to add that much of human spiritual concern was addressed by the ancients via Philosophy. This extends from notions practical to ones that we might call mystical, from atheistic credos to conventional polytheistic ones to monotheistic ones, as well, for the schools of philosophy were various and long-lived. To the extent that men sought a meaning or attitude to life, asking questions about a purpose or proper way to "be here" or to "be good", the philosophical schools had their various answers and exercises, whether Pythagorean or Platonic or Epicurean or Stoic.

Valete omnes.
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Re: Spiritual and ideological content of CDR

Postby Lucius Metilius Niger » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:48 am

a simple spiritual and ideological content of CDR could be

Romanitas and Pietas is NOT a RPG.

first of all.
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Re: Spiritual and ideological content of CDR

Postby Gaius Curtius Philo » Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:26 pm

Lucius Metilius Niger wrote:a simple spiritual and ideological content of CDR could be

Romanitas and Pietas is NOT a RPG.

first of all.


Doesnt that go without saying?
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Re: Spiritual and ideological content of CDR

Postby Publius Iunius Brutus » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:46 pm

Lucius Metilius Niger wrote:a simple spiritual and ideological content of CDR could be

Romanitas and Pietas is NOT a RPG.

first of all.


Brutus sal.

Certainly. That goes without saying. Are you trying to be cheeky? It's not clear to me if you are making a joke here...
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