On writing reports and logs

[Gaius Curtius Philo]

Salvete omnes,

I would like to ask this most august body of wise men and women if they may inform me of something. Namely, what formats should a latin report or log follow.

Our good master P. Laevus Tribunus Plebis has shown some example of latin elements in his texts that I find very insightful. For one, he ended one of his report with "Data Novo Eboraco" + the Date. I imagine data is what originated the portuguese word "dada" so I imagine it means "Given". In this sense it would mean "Given at Novum Eboracum", correct? This seems very proper.

I live in a place called "Praia Grande", which means Big Beach, in Provincia Brasilia. If I were to sign a document today would it be proper for me to sign it thusly: "C. Curtius Philo Aurelianus, Trib.Lat.
Data Litore Magno, Provincia Brasilia, a.d. XIII Kal. Iun. L. Curtio L. Aurelio cos."?

Or would I omit the Province? Or would I omit the city? Would be nice if we had a good model officiated by the CL on how we should deal with this, including with latin names for the cities of all our magistrates (Which I can ask them for).

[Gaius Florius Lupus]

"Data" is plural. This makes sense when several issues are touched. If it is a single one, I would think that "datum" would be a better option.

From a linguistical point of view it might be interesting to note that "Datum" means "date" in German. Medieval commoners in the S.R.I. apparently noticed that the date always went together with the Latin word "datum" in official documents, so they concluded that it meant "date". This could be the way how the word entered the German language.

Vale!

[Publius Sextius Laevus]

Salve Lupe

I believe 'data' is a perfect passive participle, f, single nom/abl as in 'littera data' as 'this letter was given on ...', but I have seen many ways of dating. e.g. D IIII IDUS FEBR or just V K MAI. There are a number of examples of bronze edicts online, each if dated are different.

Vale
Laevus

[Lucia Horatia Adamas]

L. Horatia Adamas C. Curtio Philoni P. Sextio Laevo C. Florio Lupo omnibusque S.P.D.

The word 'data' is a perfect passive participle (of do, dare, dedi, datus), but like many adjectives, can be used as a substantive. In form it could be neuter plural nominative or accusative, or feminine singular nominative or ablative, although, as Quintilianus noted, the ablative's long vowel should be marked as such to distinguish it from the nominative. In either case, its basic meaning is 'given.' Here the singular 'datum' is indeed preferable.

As for actual calendar-type dating, the Romans counted backward from the three fixed dates in every month: the Kalends, the Nones, and the Ides. After the Ides, the Kalends of the next month were the starting point, so today is ante diem XI Kalendas Junias (abbreviated as a.d. XI Kal. Jun.), that is, 11 days before the Kalends of June.

Laeve, the locative is used with the names of cities, so 'datum Novi Eboraci' would be used rather than 'Novo Eboraco.'

Philo, your format looks fine, although methinks that the province name could be omitted. BTW, hope you are well, and recovering nicely. The abbreviation 'coss.' may also be used for the consular year, but 'cos.' is also fine.

Latin names for cities are not easy to find, but some European ones are listed in the Collins' Gem Latin dictionary. More are at the back of the larger version of Smith's English-Latin lexicon, but the smaller version (which I normally use) lacks this feature. The online Owens neo-Latin dictionary has a good many more of these, but is difficult to search.


Valete!

[Gaius Curtius Philo]

Salve Horatia!

Thank you, I will send to my father your good wishes. He is the one sick. And I thank the immortal gods he is getting better ^^

Regarding city names, it might be interesting to see the Collegium Latinum actually creating official latin names for the cities of magistrates living in non-european cities. We could request it of the CL and you guys maintain a list of cities from the ones asked. Does this project interest you?

For example, I live in Praia Grande. What would be the best latin name for this city? Litus Magnus? Acta Magna? Both Litus and Acta seem to mean "beach", which is best to choose?

[Gaius Florius Lupus]

[Gaius Curtius Philo]

Actually Praia Grande was a district of São Vincente for a great part of its history. Only in recent years has it become a city, seperated from São Vincente. It is a very new neighborhood. I doubt we'll find any old university here. Sanctus Vincentius would be a good name for our neighbor though lol Here it is still very new and Brazil hasn't been using latin for a LONG time. So I doubt you'll find latin names for many of the younger cities.


And Horatia amica, I think it was me that got the "Novi Eboraci" wrong. I think I autocorrected it in my mind but wrongly because I thought for some reason that it had to be in the Ablative lol

[Lucia Horatia Adamas]

L. Horatia Adamas C. Curtio Philoni C. Florio Lupo omnibusque S.P.D.

It's sometimes difficult to figure out who said what unless one uses different colors or whatever. I thought I had attributed the locative error to the correct party, but I guess I didn't, although the quote seemed to be from Laevus. Obviously I got the wrong surgical patient, though admittedly I had wondered how you could be so energetic after that sort of thing. ;-) However, you are young…Best wishes to your father for a speedy recovery.

Indeed as Lupus noted, many city names already exist* and there is no need for Latinization. One simply has to find the correct Latin version. Several have the word corresponding to 'grande' in them, so there should be no problem there. 'Beach,' however, is not the sort of name one expects among the Romans (they don't seem to have been as fond of them as many moderns are), and several European countries seem to lack ocean beaches. ;-) 'Acta' is derived from the Greek akté, which poses no problems in Greek, but in Latin might be confused with 'acta [publica],' public records. 'Litus' seems to be the more generic word, and my Smith's Smaller says that 'acta' is rare in Latin (although the OLD cites a couple of examples from Cicero), so 'litus' might well be the better vocabulary choice.

* In my own state, we have cities / towns / villages named Greece, Rome, Troy, Ilion, Cicero, Syracuse, Utica, Homer, Cincinnatus, Hector, Cato, Tully, Apulia Station, Marathon, etc.…most are villages, but Syracuse is a good sized city, and Utica is not tiny. A college friend came from Rome, N.Y. Some other geographic names here are derived from those in Europe, including those from the Roman period. Unless one is dealing with the sort of invented names popular in certain quarters these days, one should be able to find a Latin equivalent for the names of many cities, towns, and villages. There is Londinium, Lutetia [Parisiorum], Neapolis…for further assistance, one may consult the Lexicon Nominum Locorum by Carolus [Karl, ni fallor] Egger, one of the top Latinists among us, or the Owens lexicon at Wyoming Catholic College: Faculty Pages » Patrick Owens » Lexicon » Adumbratio

Regarding dating of the calendar sort, not even modern Latinists tend to use the Roman-style dating, so yes, they give the number of the day and the Latin name of the month along with the modern year. BTW, did you note that the diploma in question was honorary? 'Honoris causá?'

Valete!

[Gaius Curtius Philo]

That raises an interesting question amica. If I am in a city that has the same name as an European one, how would I differentiate them in writing? Like, if I were to date something in Rome, NY how would I write that?

[Lucia Horatia Adamas]

L. Horatia Adamas C. Curtio Philoni sodalibusque S.P.D.

I forgot to mention Ithaca, the home of Cornell University…most of the areas with Greco-Roman names in NYS are in the central part of the state.

Well, there are several ancient cities with the same name, so an adjective or defining genitive was sometimes added to differentiate them. Lots of towns were named after Caesar and / or Augustus, so they were distinguished by a relevant adjective or defining genitive. Caesar Augusta was the name of what we now refer to as Zaragoza (spelling…). Augusta Taurinorum is now Turin. However, that addition may not be necessary; all over the U.S. we have multiple Londons, multiple Lexingtons (at least one in Massachusetts, where the Revolutionary War began, another in Kentucky, where the chief U.S. Latinist resides), multiple Manchesters, Warsaws, etc. etc., and many other names copied over and over again. Most of the time it is not necessary to distinguish these, but when it is, we can specify by using the name of the state or whatever. Flipping through the toponyms in Collins' Gem, I see a town called 'Lund,' whose name in Latin is Londinium Gothorum, distinguishing it from London in England (Latin, Londinium); Augsburg is Augusta Vindelicorum, but both Bologna in Italy and Boulogne in France are 'Bononia' in Latin, and insofar as its name is concerned, Thebes in Egypt is no different from Thebes in Greece.

Vale, et valete!