May 24, 2020 at 3:20 am #38010
Sextus Decius MusDenarii: 𐆖 275.55PlebeiusAlta Planitia
I read the transcript of the last Comitia Curiata meeting and the words of Lucia Hostilia Scaura, one of our founders, spoke to me. She said,
I desired more focus on the CDR. I disagreed with our selection process for sacerdotes. I wanted more focus on the Academia Minervalis. I wanted a more structured collegia system.
I would be curious as to how we could do better. How can we improve our priesthoods? How can we improve on how the CDR is recognized in the Republic? Any other thoughts? I hope we can put into action a renaissance of CDR activity!May 24, 2020 at 11:01 am #38015
Titus Flavius SeverusDenarii: 𐆖 1,400.35PatriciusSarmatia
Mus, if you or someone has ideas regarding the development of the CDR, then it is better to structure, organize and introduce them as an element in section 14 of the fundamental law specially reserved for this.
It could be something like this: http://romanrepublic.org/roma/fora/topic/reforms-and-restarting-the-system-of-the-roman-republic/#post-38014
The preamble of the section, which indicates that Roman Religion is the dominant religion of the Republic, can be described in a brief historical way, then the basic principles, then the subsection with the main organs of this religion, etc. etc.
I myself will gladly take up work on this section, I think it will be interesting to everyone.
Regarding the words, Scaura, in general, she is right, but there are certain particulars that swing from project to project, and although they are wrong, they are extremely tenacious.
Many people look at the CDR from the perspective of Christianity, and there is nothing strange in this, because we live in the Christian world, this is a matter of our socialization. I see a share of the Christian worldview in that someone wants to focus on the CDR, as if ignoring other aspects of the Republic. This is not possible in principle – the CDR cannot exist separately from the Republic, and the Republic cannot exist without its internal element – the CDR. In general, I am inclined to believe that the CDR is an element of Roman public law, a significant number of arguments speak in favor of this. The CDR cannot be implemented alone, it does not make sense, it is not a religion realized by one person, like Christianity, it is the religion of the collective and the religion of the community. The CDR is the religion of the collective and community, and in order to realize it, one person is not enough, you need communities, as well as public institutions, including magistrates. A cult follower seeks Pax Deorom, but Pax Deorum is established and approached by public authorities and officials – the Senate, Magistrates and others.
The MDC is not a game, or not an outside activity, which can be tackled when there is time, on the contrary, it is obligatory consistent work, it is a whole complex of duties, failure to fulfill one such obligation entails consequences. Many do not understand this, looking at the Roman Religion, as Christianity, from a Christian point of view. The CDR are not a value in themselves; on the contrary, this is an essential element of a large system; the CDR are unthinkable without the entire Republican system.
The funny thing is that if a significant number of people here really believed and sought to implement the CDR, they would seek the emergence of legal magistrates in the first place, because magistrates are mediators between the Roman community and the gods, without them dialogue is impossible. Magistrates must first perform sacred actions for the well-being of the Republic.
Let’s restore the CDR based on Roman principles and views, and not the worldview of other religions. Until the CDR and its principles appear in our heads, until we realize the CDR, nothing happens, we will knock on the closed door of Pax Deorum – in principle, the Republic has been doing this throughout its existence (like other projects), we are taking steps in the right direction, but this is not enough, we need a change in our minds and perceptions.
While working on the basic law (Code), we have a unique opportunity to create a truly necessary base for the CDR, this is exactly what nobody has. When we do this, the Republic will become a real home for the followers of the Cult, simply because only we will have everything necessary for the implementation of the CDR, that is, the achievement of Pax Deorum. For true followers of the CDR, this is more important than gold. That is why, I hope that real experts will take up this work within the framework of the Code, and not amateurs who relate to the MDC, as to what is momentary, without any special obligations, or efforts.
T. Fl. SeverusMay 24, 2020 at 1:48 pm #38024
Publius Iunius BrutusDenarii: 𐆖 1,464.28PatriciusPacifica
Within the community of cultores there are two schools of thought (I include groups inside and outside the RR in this analysis);
I. The CDR can only exist as sacra private (domestic / family practice) as there is no Roman state as existed in antiquity.
II. The CDR needs a sacra publica to be restored that the community level observance of the deities is a fundamental aspect of the tradition.
Back in the 1990s, the logic of point II led to the creation of the first restorationist group. I have been a cultor for 21 years now – a majority of my life. I went through periods when the creation of a sacra publica seemed like an impossible task, the lastest one of these periods a few months ago. But I always come back to the same realization that without a sacra publica we only have 1/2 of the CDR.
The truth is, a community of cultores has existed for this entire 21st century and probably much longer. But an actual sacra publica has not been realized. This community has not truly observed the deities in an organized restorationist manner. There have been glimmers of such success here in the RR and elsewhere over the years, but it has never truly ignited. To contrast this, the sacra privata has grown leaps and bounds over the past ten years.
Why has attempts to restore the sacra publica faltered? This is the question we must ask ourselves before we can improve and rebuild this part of the CDR. I have a few potential answers:
I. Lack of education on matters pertaining to the CDR
If one is performing ceremonies on behalf of a community, the community must consent to the ceremonies done in their name. This means those in the community need to recognize the ceremony as abiding by some basic traditions. We have excellent historical sources as to what this tradition entailed at a macro level. Micro details are more debatable. But to understand this tradition is hard. The books are very academic and expensive—the studies are not written for cultores, but professors. So there is a significant barrier.
Lacking knowledge is less an issue if one is performing a ceremony for themselves or their household. But when the desire is for a community to recognize that collective patronage of a deity is being met, it requires a standard that is hard for many to achieve today.
What we need is easily accessible, high-quality education around the CDR. Those who seek priesthood should be fluent in this material, the sources, and how it is translated into practice. This way, the ceremonies the priests craft and perform on behalf of the community are viewed collectively as being honorable to the Gods.
II. Lack of accepted ceremonies at the community level
The CDR community badly needs a library of well-vetted and historically mindful ceremonies for all the key dates. Ancient Romans did not just go out and invent the ceremonies for the day. This is less an issue for the sacra privata, but a major obstacle for the sacra publica. We need well-researched ceremonies, crafted to the Societas Numaea historically correct framework. This would give our priests actual ceremonies to perform that are consistent and well regarded year to year.
III. The cults themselves need further exploration and development
The cults need further exploration and development. This will make the Gods and Goddesses in question better understood at a community level. This is less an issue for the more well known and researched cults. But many important cults need further elucidation due to the current state of the evidence. For example, how is Veiovis understood within the sacra publica? To form a meaningful patron-client relationship, we must better understand such aspects. We need more discussion, reflection, and possibly even auspices to this effect.
IV. Human resources challenges
There is a reason the RR only accepted any priest on a provisional basis. Being a priest is a big job. It is not a role that is easily taken away. If done poorly, it threatens the relationship between our community and the divine. This is no small matter. But we also badly need people who are willing to take on the commitment. So herein lies a critical challenge.
We need volunteers that can perform all the tasks needed for I-III above. How do we get there?
Well, education is part of it. I think Academia Minervalis can be part of this solution. This will allow us to better vet the knowledge of candidates and get motivated volunteers up to speed. This should give us a better pool of candidates. With more candidates should come more sacerdotes. With more sacerdotes we can better tackle points II-III above. Based on who performs the best on helping with these tasks, we should then, with the help of the Gods, have a good idea of who would be best suited to form a Collegium Pontificum to help guide the sacra publica for the future and to maintain the pax deorum.
BrutusMay 24, 2020 at 4:07 pm #38037
Titus Flavius SeverusDenarii: 𐆖 1,400.35PatriciusSarmatia
Great words, Brutus. I agree with you. It’s nice to see what we think in a single way.June 3, 2020 at 3:32 pm #38140
Aulus Iulius CaesarDenarii: 𐆖 405.20PlebeiusMissuria
Salvete! I have just read through this and I have to say, very good points from all above. On the idea of using the Academia Minervalis, if the true goal of the Academia is to create a true cultural descendant of the ancient Roman culture then without a doubt CDR and all of it’s facets need to be included. We already have trainings for the Augurs at the very least, I am uncertain about our Sacerdotes and Pontiffs, but I personally have gone through the Augurs rigorous training. Using the Academia would be the perfect excuse to go over any trainings made and rework and improve them. Personally I found some parts of the training to be difficult to follow due to it being only typed. I wish for us sometime in the future to consider not only worded trainings but actual video trainings.
When it comes to the more complex actions required for proper sacra publica visually seeing how it is preformed will greatly help make sense of what is written and help maintain the relationship with the gods. As we know getting our ceremonies correct is extremely important and so uncertain, under trained priests of any kind will only hurt us, not help us. We need individuals who are willing to undergo this training once it has been completed.
I personally and willing, capable and able to go over what we currently have and would be more than willing to become a teacher at the Academia to assist. I myself don’t have any degrees, but what I do have is passion and over a decade of constant study and a want to rid myself of ignorance. This goal is indeed possible, even closer to possible than I think we realize. We have a group of people here willing to do what we need to to make this work, all we have to do is take full advantage of it.
If anyone has anymore comments, words, ideas, etc. I am always willing to listen and adapt. I am not perfect and neither is my knowledge, but I will always expand and learn. Thank you for reading. Valete!
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.