January 26, 2021 at 1:58 am #40702
Numerius Caelius SaturninusDenarii: 𐆖 67.75PlebeiusFlorida
I recall once that our own Camillus rightfully called out Nova Roma for their lack of real world involvement and exclusivity, even noting their refusal of diplomacy with like minded groups. Yet that seems to be the fate of our Republic as well, we don’t seem to have too many allies of our own nor any moves to make us (CDR) recognized legally (our end goal). Legal recognition can mean the establishment of legitimate temples with all the benefits of recognized religions like Christianity, Islam and Shintoism so we are taken seriously rather than as the reenactors Nova Roma has made us in the public eye. Our diplomacy and clout is nonexistent with so few people being aware that CDR is still being practiced and fewer being aware WE exist.
Which is why I propose our Senatores and Consules to reach out to these likeminded individuals:
- The European Congress of Ethnic Religions: an organization made up of many different “pagan” traditional faiths campaigning in Europe for the education of and strengthening of pre-Christian faiths in Europe, of these, two are similar to us; The Greek Supreme Council of Ethnic Hellenes (YSEE) which boasts some 2,000 practitioners and 100,000 more looking into it and the Traditional Roman Movement of Italy which conducts its own research and recently started making videos teaching newcomers of CDR. Note that ethnic here refers to traditional religion, not ethnicity or race. The ECER mention more but these are the biggest and closest to us.
- The Parliament of Religions: is a group based on interfaith dialogues through conferences and exhibits, a good platform to educate the public about modern CDR and have our own dialogue with recognized religions.
- Ellinais: another Hellenistic organization, this one being the hardest to find contact information. They preach world peace and held the first Hellenic ceremony since the 4th Century at the Olympieion. Word is that they still have 3 high priests.
- Byzantium Novum: a reconstructionist group based on the Late Empire, have their own branch representing Late CDR. Personally, they seem like roleplayers with their “treaties of recognition” but there are serious practitioners and plenty of effort put into its many projects, I believe we can more seriously influence them with a partnership and make “Nova Byzantinus” a sort of subculture or rite within the primarily Early Empire/Late Republic organization. The East and Late Empire is severely underrepresented here but that is besides the point.
All in all, we have multiple opportunities to gain clout and overtake Nova Roma as the leading Roman Reconstructionists while addressing the concerns and needs of our fellows like the Hellenes who cannot freely express themselves. It is astonishing how an organization based on CDR has its religious components developed last and even be rejected by the population through election, if we do not want to be like Nova Roma, these are steps that need to be taken: learn from similar practitioners of similar faiths (like Shintoism or Buddhism) on top of our own research to produce new information, support our allies (through finance or public works) even on social media, and become more involved in the world in general (maybe charities, fundraisers, public events). I want to see the Roman Republic as more than an online forum, an organization the public is aware of and supports with these being the first steps. I make it sound easy, but our veteran members should know that not a lot of work comes easily.January 26, 2021 at 9:57 am #40703
Gaia Pompeia HispaniensisDenarii: 𐆖 35.10PlebeiusHispania
As I’ve told you on Discord, I love that idea. That’s a way of showing that we are alive, that we are not willingly going to be isolated to decay, and that we are going to pursue our objectives united. That would get us recognition and even open us some paths to getting the CDR to a legal status.
I’d also like to add some additional organizations we can reach out to.
- Hellenic Faith. This is an organization based around the works of “Julian the Apostate”, they mostly teach info about Julian Hellenism, and even if that isn’t near what the CDR is, at least it shares some roots and mutual help could be beneficial.
- Labrys. Another hellenist organization, like YSSE. They seem active and even have some activity regarding certain ceremonies like weddings and funerals. I don’t have that much info about this one, but hey, the more options we have, the better.
I hope this suggestion would move on, because this is something that could be crucial to us.January 26, 2021 at 9:36 pm #40704
Octavius Marius BestiaDenarii: 𐆖 84.15PlebeiusScandia
Salve! I agree with your overall message, but I would say we ought to focus less on outshining another organization with a similar goal and instead focus on becoming the best possible alternative for people interested in practicing the romanitas, quality speaks for itself and the rest will follow. However, the point you raise that we need better outreach is very good and I also believe we would benefit greatly from cooperation with like-minded organizations.
I cannot speak too much about it, since I have not been a citizen for very long, but I would also like to add that we should definitely focus more on our outreach in general. The republic can not grow if people are not made aware of its existence and that outreach can take many forms, like a smarter social media presence, collaborations etc. In the end, we can build and improve but we also need a good way of displaying our example to the world as well, just as you say.January 27, 2021 at 10:39 am #40705
Titus Flavius SeverusDenarii: 𐆖 1,400.35PatriciusSarmatia
Before I speak, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that I am in no way opposed to establishing relations with other organizations. This should be borne in mind as you read the following.
Raised topic, relevant and good. This topic concerns both ourselves and other organizations. In general terms, the position of our current “diplomacy” is correctly described. However, before I develop this topic, I would like all of us to ask two questions “why?” and “what is the result?”
The question “why?” – the cornerstone, as it is directly related to the appropriateness, our actions to create relationships with outside organizations. Until there is a clear answer why we should do this, there will be no expediency. Personally, I believe that now this direction is not developing precisely because no one sees in this a clear and understandable benefit, both for the Roman Republic and for those organizations with which we will negotiate.
I see no point in concluding treaties for the sake of those treaties themselves. Let’s see how other organizations like the Roman Republic have benefited from their treaties or diplomacy? Probably nothing substantially useful.
In addition, it should be understood that the Roman Republic is an organization that recreates the tradition and culture of Ancient Rome, and we do it with scientific meticulousness, this in itself imposes certain obligations on us. For example, what is the point of establishing contacts with modern multilingual or elenamental organizations, if we are dealing specifically with the Roman religion? Imagine two historical reconstruction clubs, one of them is engaged in the reconstruction of ancient Rome, and the other club is engaged in the reconstruction of ancient Japan, of course, both clubs are engaged in historical reconstruction, but the subject of their interest is completely different. Good neighborly relations are not necessarily formalized by a dysplomatic agreement, while diplomatic agreements are not yet a guarantee of the absence of hostile relations, as one well-known Roman organization has vividly shown us.
Before negotiating with others, you should resolve matters within your own organization, since it is the local divisions of the Roman Republic that are the instruments through which the organization carries out its activities on the ground. Let’s say you come to an agreement with some Greek organization, but the Roman Republic does not have an organized community in Greece that could fruitfully interact with this organization. It seems to me that before we turn our eyes to the outside, we must figure out what we have inside, namely to establish interaction first between our own citizens within one location, organizing them into a community that can be called a province, and then, establishing interaction between the provinces themselves, then between the provinces and the center. And when we solve these issues, then we can deal with external issues. It’s just silly to negotiate with other communities when we ourselves can’t really organize our own internal communities.
With regard to the question “what is the result?”, I propose to pay attention to other organizations and see what significant benefits their diplomacy has brought them. Personally, I do not know such a benefit in the example of two organizations. The same applies to the topic raised in relation to an official organization, including a religious one. Tell me, what real benefit did this bring to such organizations? The Roman Republic already has a legal entity, although it is not religious, but even from it for 5 years there was no sense. Registration for the sake of registration itself, like contracts for the sake of contracts themselves, is meaningless, it is not practical.
As for the arguments regarding the influx of new citizens, then we already have an influx of new citizens, another question is that we should have taken up and organized some kind of effective work to involve these citizens in the life and activities of the Republic, before thirsting for even more new citizens…
Well, in conclusion, as I said, I am not against “diplomacy”, let those who are supposed to do it and who have it at that time should do it. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that we have a Declaration, our goals and objectives are enshrined there, what we should do and what we are striving for, so I believe that “diplomacy” should be viewed only as a tool aimed to achieve the goals and objectives of the Declaration, and not as a goal in itself. Everything has its time. “Diplomacy” as a tool also has its time, which apparently has not yet come.
P.S. The messages compared our Republic and another well-known organization. So, I think that in addition to the above comparisons, both organizations should be compared in terms of the number of taxpayer participants. The difference between our Republic and that other organization is about 20 people. Subtract from this number a dozen deceived Sarmats, who, according to a common decision, are not going to give anything there anymore, and it turns out that both organizations have an approximately equal number of taxpayers, that is, participants who really support the organization. Think for yourself, in favor of whom does this statistic speak, whose positive achievements does it express? Moreover, the Roman Republic has existed for less than five years, while the other organization has existed for more than four times.January 27, 2021 at 10:02 pm #40709
Numerius Caelius SaturninusDenarii: 𐆖 67.75PlebeiusFlorida
Why? Because the Roman religion was based on adapting with the world and culture around it. Syncretism was at its core and this is heavily recorded. We work with likeminded people so we can incorporate their ideas into ours like how the original Romans did, we are not unique nor are we alone in what we do. We aren’t even the first Roman reconstructionists. So taking notes from more established and related groups (like the Hellenismos) would not only keep us more updated, but will see us move beyond a simple internet forum. Note that one of these groups does EXACTLY what we do and even they have seen the need to connect.
Additionally, we need brand recognition. How many groups are called “Roman Republic”, what are the odds that we are the first thing a CDR practitioner sees? Next to nil. Nova Roma is what they see first and we are even second when you look up “Roman Republic” (second to Res Publica, our own ally). A few collaborations gets our name across, people learn about us, and we get closer to becoming a legitimate entity in the public conscious, keep in mind the average person does not know anything outside of Christianity or Islam and believe we are just LARPers or reenactors. If we aren’t going in to learn, we should go in knowing that this makes us more recognizable or that we are aware of the very real issues people following ethnic religions face. If we do not contact likeminded people and stick to our own bubble, the only people aware of us are the ones in it, an echo chamber forms, no new ideas emerge, and we become like Nova Roma where they manage to have an online dictatorship and exodus because they were so consumed with their own niche.
The Republic has a lot to gain from them, unlike us, each group has been involved in the public eye. Unlike us, they have political representation. If we want legal recognition, it is common sense we at least take some notes and collaborate with them. A treaty does not mean we give up our autonomy. It does not mean we bend our knee to the Hellenes, Druids, or even Wiccans. It only means that we acknowledge we face the same problem and can pool our resources together. We can even influence them through our treaties if they are “too modern” and make them more traditional (like Byzantium Novum). Become a vanguard of traditional religion, perhaps. Nova Roma was the biggest reconstructionist movement of its time and still could not accomplish anything more than a few reenactments. It’s clear we need help.
As you have said, we have our own Declaration and goals. So do they. I am not saying we should outreach just for the sake of it, quite the opposite, we must use outreach as a tool to promote Romanitas. The problem we have, as Camillus stated once, was that many of our citizens did not actually practice CDR. That is fine. However, they are also not Latin speakers. This is fine as well. Surely they are at least Roman in tradition? Most likely not so. We still don’t have our Pontificum established because of their vote. If we show we are serious through treaties with equally serious organizations willing to work in the real world, we can get more serious contributing citizens. The organizations I listed were not mere forums, they are serious practitioners, some of which faced persecution for their faith (like the YSEE and Ellinais. Diplomacy is a tool to be used for our goals, we need to use it but carefully. We’ve already have two ends of the spectrum: Too conservative with Nova Roma and too liberal with Byzantium Novum. Which is why we need to be careful and stick to our Declaration to the “T”.
I am not sure which organization you are referring to, since I listed multiple. The MTR? They have become a founding member of the ECER, publishes its own newspaper, officiated (legally) multiple marriages under CDR, organizes its own conferences and is one of the biggest publishers of modern CDR works in Italy. The YSEE? The same. They founded the ECER, became the symbol of modern Hellenism, maintained traditional holidays in Greece and even holds them publicly, and is one of the biggest combatants against the discrimination of ethnic religions in Southern Europe. Both of them have contributed more to traditional faith than we have as a whole. We have only existed for a few years. Not even a newspaper like Byzantium Novum, or contributive essays like Nova Roma. The closest we got was the Sibylline Books proposal and even then we aren’t even sure if they are legitimate contemporary scriptures. We are just another Roman based forum to the rest of the world and CDR, we must change this. I am not saying we must reach out now, but in the future, we have to look towards the real world and similar movements to achieving our goals.January 29, 2021 at 9:25 am #40710
Sextus Sergius AbascantusDenarii: 𐆖 103.80PlebeiusSarmatia
Salve, Nemerius Caelius!
In general, you have a good idea, but which, of course, requires implementation! Yesterday Aulus Iulius in Discord outlined all possible assistance in the ideas of the citizens of our Republic, I think that you need to do this, if you already have a work experience with whom you can cooperate and develop mutual relations. I think that learning from experience and sharing it with other organizations will help us better consolidate our common cause!
As Tribunus Laticlavius, assistant to our praetor Titus Flavius, I would like you to participate in the elections this February. You can also recruit people who will be as interested in it as you are for productive work in this direction!
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