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March 13, 2016 at 8:01 am #3418
I just read the edictum curiatorum for applications and the formation of the CP and CA. It is perfectly. When I thought about this issue, I also came to the conclusion that this issue can be solved only in this way. I’m really impressed with how responsive and prudent the members of comitia curiata approach to the solutions of so important and systemic issues like this. It really deserves respect.March 13, 2016 at 1:53 pm #3421
Ah, so they’d start as temporary Sacerdotes and THEN become Pontifices right? I’m ok with that. This was very well thought out and you all deserve a pat in the back. Good job ^^March 13, 2016 at 2:18 pm #3428
I would only say we are trying to do our best. Where the original plans were to develop things over months, with the current phenomenal response of new citizenship growth, those months have been moved to days and weeks. We are trying to get everything done in a hurry without being in a hurry, LOL!March 13, 2016 at 2:38 pm #3430
And I dare say you are all doing a great job lol I already said the three that I support for the charge of being Pontifex, let’s see how it all turns out 🙂March 13, 2016 at 4:17 pm #3433
http://www.facebook.com/groups/respublicaroman … ment_reply
An interesting discussion on the topic is being held here. Marco Orazio, a very respected cultor, seems to have suggested that the RR, RPR and CDR have the same Collegium Pontificum. He is Pontifex Maximus for both organizations. What do you guys think of this? It has the benefit of putting all the organizations closer together and also put tested Pontifices on the chair. It would also strengthen the religious unity of the entire roman community. If anything, it is worth pondering about and consulting cultores to see what everyone thinks. What do you guys think?March 13, 2016 at 5:57 pm #3434
Brutus and I have already been talking with some of the leadership of these groups for several days now. The problem is the same old problem. Everyone wants to work together, but separately as separate organizations, and in a collaborative environment, BUT each party wants to be in charge. As I have repeatedly explained to others, this has never worked in the past. We all have to get everyone on the same sheet of music. They are all looking at RR as trying to be the superior org over everyone else, and that is just not what we are proposing.
We are proposing one Roman community, where all Roman orgs can come together, maintaining their separate and equal autonomy, just working under the same umbrella with an elected membership to guide the direction of the Roman community. And this is obviously what many others are interested in by the looks of what is happening here. This is different from the same old attempts at confederation assemblies, which have not, do not, and will not work. The negotiations are positive so far, not negative. What I have tried to relay to members of the SVR/RpR/CDR group that I know, because it is basically a handful of the same people, is that any org is like a baby at the start. It has to learn to crawl, then stand, then walk. None of these three has been able to get past the crawling stage. It is what it is.
In 12 days, the RR has expanded to 5 times the membership and participation that any of the three has achieved in the first 5 years of their existence. There have been no wars, no arguments, no power plays, just people from different corners of the community working together to create something good and effective for all of us, and that it appears we can all live with and accept. The other groups have somewhat stagnated and have a few diehards remaining that don’t wish to participate with us. Everyone is now threatened that RR will eliminate and destroy all other orgs. This is just not the case at all. The problem is that they need new blood and new ideas to get out of the rut, which they can find through the RR system. Their leadership seems to be willing to discuss it, but not so much some of the members it appears, by some of the comments away from here.
The CDR is religious arm of the RpR originally, and they absolutely demand to work separately. They have some amazing experience, knowledge and talent in that group. No one can deny that. However, I am not in agreement nor for following the lead of any organization who has at best marginally succeeded, no matter who the group is or its particular Roman flavor. One can argue this, but if they had, the RR would not exist, nor have a need to. From a perspective of religious duty, they have done well. From a perspective of managing and growing an organization, none of the three has managed to keep it rolling at a growing pace for very long because everyone seems to be regenerating in one form or another and following the same model…a model that does not work. As they say down south here, "In order to talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk." They haven’t in my opinion, AND obviously in the opinion of many others.
I simply do not agree that we subcontract the CP or the Administration out to one group or another and take our chances. I would rather they keep their organizations, join us as collaborative partners, let the community assist them in promoting their orgs. It is a win-win situation. Their leadership and membership can run for office in RR and participate like everyone else…or not. This is choice they have to make. We can only encourage them to work with us. We are here to support them and build them up, but some see that it is not the case. We want all of these orgs to grow and thrive independently, as it provides people with choices, but people will see what they want to see. On the other hand, if someone is hostile to the RR concept and wants to continue to bad mouth us, then I personally don’t want them here causing discontent anyway. It’s a big world, and they are free to go elsewhere and find their place in it. It is a personal choice to be part of the solution or to be part of the problem. None of us can change that.
I am confident that we can all reach an acceptable solution, but it has to be through a collective effort and based through the RR, period. I see no point in conceding the management of the organization to another organization. If this is the only option, then why are we here? I’ll go fishing instead.March 13, 2016 at 6:33 pm #3435
We aren’t really talking about conceding managing power to another organization. We are debating wether it is best to adopt the CP members of Marco Ozorio’s CP or to make a seperate one. Just that. And as you said, religiously they have done a good job. It is precisely in the religious department that the CP should rule over, so why not have these experienced people as our CP?March 13, 2016 at 6:49 pm #3436
I fully agree with Triarius. Moreover, given the new and positive developments that are taking place in the construction of the foundation of the Roman Republic, it should not be otherwise. The efforts of the Roman Republic guarantee the quality, reliability and stability of the sacred institutions. This is a serious and balanced approach.
If someone from outside organizations will express steadfast intention to join the sacred institutions of our Roman Republic, then they must do it on a common basis, ie according to the general rules and laws. Such an approach, in particular, will give an opportunity to members of other organizations to confirm their qualifications and availability of appropriate skills.March 13, 2016 at 6:54 pm #3439
I understand. What I am saying is that it matters not to me if none or all of the members of the CP are CDR members. If all of the members happen to be members of the CDR, then it’s okay with me. But, the CP of the RR should probably be composed of members from different orgs, not just one. Without this, there is no diversity. And, even if the CP is completely filled with members of the CDR, it should be a stand alone entity, separated from CDR, representing the religious interests of the community as a whole, not a sub-contracted arrangement to fulfill the religious requirements of the community, IMHO. Just like we wouldn’t want to place a particular reenactment org in sole charge of the reenactment sector of the community. I would think a reenactment council, composed of the Centuriones of various legions would be better, and better serve the community. We are growing at an extremely high rate. In this mix, there will be people that will surface that are highly qualified in specific areas of the community. I do not feel it is fair to exclude them from the community in any sector because we have made an agreement with any one org to "supervise" that particular sector. It is in no way fair, and cannot be argued that it would be so. Does this make sense?March 13, 2016 at 7:02 pm #3446
I understand Triari and Severe. One way we can do this is to invite them to enter the RR and, as individuals, seek membership in the new CPMarch 13, 2016 at 7:31 pm #3450
Exactly! The CDR can continue its mission of stepping in to assist new groups in developing their religious needs and/or requirements. This is a Power Team to assist other Roman orgs. For example, if a group of relatively new Romans wish to start a new living history society, but are no sure what to do for public rituals, and may have new cultores who are not yet at the confidence to perform public ritual work, then the CDR should be their first stop. They were born to do this. There are members here already who have never heard of the CDR. Now they have.
Also, this is a much different function than the role of the community CP, IMHO. If we continue to grow, those members composing the CP will probably have their hands full, IF they do their job and do not just occupy the seat, which I DO NOT expect they will do. This frees the CDR up to do more in-depth work in specific areas. So, in my opinion: RR CP=General Work & CDR=Specific Work. BOTH are critically important to the religio and the community.
That being said, it is important to remember here that the bonfire and how it will be built and maintained will be determined by the initial CP members…and that may, and probably will, change direction over time. The CC’s role is just to strike the match.March 13, 2016 at 7:35 pm #3451
Truly. Since you know Orazio the longest, would you invite him and explain to him all this Triari?March 13, 2016 at 7:37 pm #3452
I agree with Triari on this issue. We are of the same opinion. I strongly feel that all parties mentioned are potential stakeholders in our Res Publica. I sincerely hope and believe many will find a home here. What we propose is an independent CP that values the Declaration and wants to work with the RR to unify all Romans, cultores and otherwise. I believe that such a "big tent" approach will grow the Cultus Deorum, increase recognition of the Sacra Publica, and be best for the Pax Deorum.
Any group is welcomed and encouraged to form a Collegium. I would not be surprised if the RR eventually has a vibrant community of spiritual Collegia. I hope the CP developed out of this edict can build bridges between such groups and non-cultores. Perhaps like a "united nations" of cultores?
Triari also raises another good point. We have a happy challenge. We are growing very fast! A lot is going on from an administrative perspective and from an outreach perspective. The current Comitia Curiata meeting is also another important task requiring attention. The rate of growth, approaching 100 citizens in less than two weeks, has accelerated our need get our various services up and running, even if only partially so. I hope that the election of our first magistrates will help divide some of these tasks for next month. I’m hopeful that this overall growth will produce a positive effect on the development of our CP and community of cultores. I’m eager to read the applications and to get started on this most important task.
BrutusMarch 13, 2016 at 7:40 pm #3453
I do not know Orazio. Are you talking about Marcus Horatius? If you are, we have been talking for days privately.March 13, 2016 at 7:42 pm #3454
Anonymousquote Gaius Atius Victor:
Invitations have been privately extended to many individuals, and most if not all responses are positive. Triari can elaborate further.
I think every cultor has a role in this outreach. We all know people who are mentors, teachers, and role models. Informing these individuals of what is happening here is a key step in this process towards a strong, healthy and representative CP.
BrutusMarch 13, 2016 at 7:57 pm #3455
Yes, I mean Horatius. Marco Orazio is his name on facebook. Im glad you two are talking. I think he’d be great as one of our pontifices. He tought many people and is very knowledgable. Others that I think would be good Pontifices I am talking to. Lets hope we can get as many of these respectable people as possible ^^March 13, 2016 at 8:29 pm #3456
Absolutely, Brute! We have been and are privately contacting everyone who we have relationships with concerning the development of RR. Many people being discussed in the various topics in the Forum are already here, with more coming each day…they just haven’t spoken yet. All I can say is that it is a good thing that I work from home and am self-employed, LOL! The public is seeing about 10% of the work that is being done. That is why there has been somewhat of a delay in the CC proceedings. We never expected things to explode and move this fast. It is evident that a collective movement is afoot here amongst Romans!
I’m not at all worried about collaboration with the leaders of the various orgs. They are all seeing that we are not trying to burn their city walls down, and are in full support of them and their orgs. We just have to clarify the details. More and more are coming on board as we discuss how the process should work, so that we all benefit. We want to leave NO ONE out or behind. It takes all of us to make a global community.
The current issues lie with some of their membership, who fear we are lying and want to remove their orgs from the picture. I do not know what to say to them other than we are genuinely interested in helping them in anyway we can.
As I said before people believe what they want. Time is the only cure for this. In time, people who are resistant to us will come to see we are not the villains they think we are. Until then, it is what it is. We can only try to reach out to them and hope they understand that.
What we need is for current RR members to speak to their friends who might be unsure, resistant, or hostile to RR to stop, take a breath, and relook at the RR project. Every org and every person that is a citizen here has a role to play. We do not necessarily know what that is at this point, but we will find it together, so that we both win and succeed. Nothing else is permissible, nor should be expected. Anything else is failure, and failure is not an option. I personally do not allow it with my kids, my Boy Scouts, my businesses, other non-profits I am or have been involved with…nothing. I like to win. Winning alone is lonesome. Winning with others is rewarding and special. Winning big with many others is a charm of life. If one cannot accomplish things together with others in a common goal, then life becomes uninteresting fast, and one becomes a sole operator and successful recluse. Human beings are social creatures, not hermits.
Contact everyone you know, especially people with experience in the Roman community. We need 100 applications for the CP, not 3. We may select 3 in the CC, but we will be able to hand over 97 for them to discuss and plan from. (Just an example). In a matter of days, we will need candidates for magistrate positions. Contact all those who you feel would be experienced candidates, and feverously encourage them to run for office. Don’t assume they will, demand it of them personally!
If you know of a Roman organization anywhere in the world that does not know of us, big or small, and you are a member or know a member, contact them and invite them to check us out. Have them read everything they can here and ask us questions. Ensure the fact that we want their participation. Diversity, Diversity, Diversity! Leave no Roman stone unturned.
Brute, we also need to immediately look at and implement Severus’ recommendation on the Forum boards. It is already becoming hard to find things, due to the population explosion. This is a good thing. I don’t think we can complain, LOL!
We have not even discussed many aspects of the community yet to come. Then, it will get really interesting! Everyone hold on tight. If you fall off of a fast moving train, it’s almost impossible to climb back on!
Optime valete omnes,
Triarius "the Bald" (Actually, I do have one hair left on my head…I think…maybe…)March 13, 2016 at 8:38 pm #3457
Triari Calve, well said lolMarch 13, 2016 at 8:41 pm #3458
Anonymousquote Gaius Atius Victor:
It does speak volumes when one has been elected as the Pontifex Maximus for 4 major Roman organizations, doesn’t it!
Just this morning he offered encouragement and imparted wise advice to me personally on a non-RR issue (Thanks, John). This is what Romanitas is about. We can all learn from the wise ones, which we need in all key leadership positions in the Res publica.
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